The Lucy Ann Lance Show
Grassroots Efforts for Fair Elections: Interview with John Godfrey
In an interview with radio host Lucy Ann Lance, John Godfrey discusses the initiative to bring nonpartisan elections and public campaign financing to the city. Hear how the grassroots movement aims to increase voter participation, reduce the influence of money in politics, and focus on local issues. Our goal is to create a more inclusive and transparent democratic process.
Listen below to learn more about the efforts and how you can get involved:
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Interview Transcript: (Edited for Readability)
Lucy Ann Lance:
A grassroots initiative is underway to reform City of Ann Arbor elections, a group calling itself, the Coalition for Ann Arbor's Future, is striving to get two initiatives on the November ballot. One calls for nonpartisan mayor and city council races. While the other calls for public campaign financing for those races.
Lucy Ann Lance:
One of the organizers, John Godfrey, live in our studio with the Coalition for Ann Arbor's Future. How did all of this come about?
John Godfrey:
That's a good question. You know, this came about starting about six weeks ago when a group of people who were concerned that Ann Arbor's elections had become less competitive. There was a lot of money coming into these elections. Thought that there could be a better way to do things. And there were - we had a number of conversations and very quickly we got rolling to put together a grassroots campaign to propose two changes to the way Ann Arbor's local city elections take place. One idea is to make our elections nonpartisan, rather than currently, they’re partisan. Ann Arbor is one of only two cities left in Michigan to still have partisan elections.
Lucy Ann Lance:
Used to be three, Ionia changed last year.
John Godfrey:
Ionia bailed out in November, and all 254 or 255, other municipalities in Michigan, have nonpartisan elections. So we thought this would be a good thing. We thought it would lower the barrier for running for office, and nonpartisan elections keep the focus on local issues rather than partisan labels and they also have the advantage that they end the partisan gatekeeping.
Lucy Ann Lance:
What do you mean by that?
John Godfrey:
Well, it means that you have someone who gets on the November ballot because they've won the August primary. And that's a time when there are very few voters in town, the turnout for August primaries are very, very low. And so one person advances to the November ballot and frequently they're unopposed, and so you've got to go through that partisan gate to show up on the November ballot. Which means there are very few choices and there have been in recent years many people that have run for office for city council without any opponent at all. So we thought that ending partisan gatekeeping would be a good thing. It’d bring more choices, increase participation, make our elections more inclusive. And, the other thing we thought is that when elections are nonpartisan, Voters tend to evaluate a candidate's experience, their qualifications and their position on local issues.
Lucy Ann Lance:
Where do they stand on the local issues? That's what these elections should be about. They're making decisions on behalf of the taxpayers, the residents of Ann Arbor that are important and you need to know where someone stands.
John Godfrey:
That's what we think. And, there needs to be more of that public discussion about what local issues are and what the priorities should be. Rather than focusing on party affiliation. And so, we think that eliminating August primaries and making our elections nonpartisan will give voters more than one candidate to consider in the November ballot. And candidates, of course, can still emphasize their party affiliation during their campaign. That's obvious. But the letter identification won't appear on the ballot and we think this is going to help foster a greater transparency, discussion of issues and qualifications of candidates. And so we think this is going to be a good thing to strengthen Ann Arbor’s local democracy - particularly this year.
Lucy Ann Lance:
I grew up in Ann Arbor so I have seen various makeups of city council and Mayors at the helm and we've had a diversity in the past. We have not for many years now as far as having a diverse body making decisions for us and I think that has changed the tenor of the conversation around the city council table. So I can understand wanting to bring more voices to the table, but on the other hand, when you talk about the fact that there are more people in town, in November versus August, you're talking about students.
John Godfrey:
Yes.
Lucy Ann Lance:
And that can really change the way an election goes as well.
John Godfrey:
Well, students and Ann Arbor residents. Many Ann Arbor residents are out and up north for the summer, they are not informed about what's happening. They don't vote absentee because they forget to. So the turnouts are really quite low.
Yeah. Students, we expect that there would be more students at the polls but is that a bad thing to have students who live here? Who contribute to our tax base, who contribute to our local economy. To get them better informed about issues facing the city. And you know, anytime with a group of people in Ann Arbor, I can count maybe at least half who came here as students to begin with and became lifelong residents.
Lucy Ann Lance:
You're right.
John Godfrey:
I think democracy is intended to be participatory and students are some of our participants.
Lucy Ann Lance:
As a point of reference, you are a former Dean at the University of Michigan.
John Godfrey:
Yes, yes, I am.
Lucy Ann Lance:
Tell us about your background, John.
John Godfrey:
I was one of the Dean’s at the Rackham graduate school until a year ago when I retired. We came here to Ann Arbor in 1993, my wife and two kids and myself and our kids went to Pioneer, graduated from Pioneer and have moved on. And since I retired, I've gotten my head out of the boat as it were, and taken a look around about what's going on in the city and thinking to myself, hey, we could do better. And I've met a number of people who believe the same thing and are really thrown themselves into this effort wholeheartedly.
Lucy Ann Lance:
You've never been involved in politics before.
John Godfrey:
Never.
Lucy Ann Lance:
You're a great example of how there are a lot of people in Ann Arbor who stew over issues but they don't either - can't take the initiative to do something, or they don't feel that they could or they feel disenfranchised from the conversation.
John Godfrey:
I think so too, I think that's exactly right. And I think people are struggling to stay informed about issues, it's very hard to do so these days. And, what we're talking about - these efforts to reform the way we choose our local leaders is also a way to try and build up the kinds of conversations in exchange of information that has to happen. If people are to make informed choices about the direction, their city is going to take.
Lucy Ann Lance:
Yeah, it has bothered me in the past with our current mayor and city council, that voices are cut off at the table. That if you have a differing opinion, you are not given the ability to speak out on that, I believe anyway. And so, I do believe that, you know, it would be great to have a more diverse body. Mayor Taylor has been on our show in the past, of course, and years ago, we brought this up many times to him about a nonpartisan election in Ann Arbor. He has always said no to that and I want to read something that was in Ryan Stanton's article about this topic, just a couple of days ago.
Lucy Ann Lance:
Mayor Christopher Taylor said in this article that “money doesn't win elections, shoe leather ideas and teamwork win elections.” This is about the second initiative. “I think using taxpayer money to support the campaigns of losing political candidates is not a good use of public funds”, we'll get to that initiative in a moment. Stanton also writes, “Taylor also has long opposed attempts to move to nonpartisan elections twice flexing his veto power over it several years ago. He still believes party labels such as the Democratic one next to his name on the ballot, convey important information to voters.” Mayor Taylor saying, “I'm proud to be a Democrat. I think Ann Arbor shares that view.”
John Godfrey:
Mayor Taylor has, you know, has every right. And, certainly, I understand his pride in being a Democrat. I've been a lifelong Democrat, myself. I think being a member of a political party is important particularly in national and state level issues, because the parties organize policies around these. But in local issues, we're really talking about a whole different order of things. We're talking about local services and partisanship here doesn't serve those issues well.
I think that Mayor Taylor and city council, anybody runs for Council, has every right and should identify themselves and what their partisan background is. That's very, very important information for voters. But that is not the totality of information. And in a way, it makes it easier to hide behind a label rather than coming out front and saying, what you really believe in, where you think the city should be going, where the priorities are, where you stand on the issues facing.
Lucy Ann Lance:
So, in other words, someone might vote D because that's their affiliation without realizing what that person stands for?
John Godfrey:
That's right. That's exactly right. It sort of steps in the way of informed decision making.
Lucy Ann Lance:
And I would argue you don't even know Republican and Democratic, at the national level anymore, either.
John Godfrey:
That's exactly right. Yes, you don't. And it’s, you know, the Democratic party has long been proud of having been a big, very big tent. It accommodates Bernie Sanders, it accommodates, AOC it accommodates, Bill Clinton. People who have a very wide range of views at the national level, and at the local level, we're really not talking about that. We're talking about the road's going to get repaired? Are we going to be ready for climate change? Are we, you know, how are we preparing ourselves? How are we made? What are we doing, for independent businesses, in town to make sure they're sustainable?
Lucy Ann Lance:
John Godfrey, with us from the Coalition for Ann Arbor's Future. Their website is a2nonpartisan.com, check out that website. I was talking with someone who has been a leader in state politics. Who shall remain nameless and they said your website is excellent. It's really a great site a2nonpartisan.com. I don't even know where they stand on this issue, but at any rate, I thought I would pass that along to you. The second part of this, and there are two ballot initiatives that are being passed around town right now, the second is Voters Not Money - campaign finance reform. Let's talk about that John.
John Godfrey:
Sure. Yeah, so what we're proposing is to create the first ever, in Michigan, campaign finance program. A fair elections fund. Because we believe that small donations matter, this is a solution. We've got a huge amount of money now pouring into our local elections. It now costs about forty thousand dollars for someone who's going to run for city council. And in the last elections for mayor and council, I believe the mayor raised close to a hundred thousand dollars to campaign for office and that's that shuts the gate on somebody, who thinks they've got something to contribute to civic life, in Ann Arbor from even considering running for office. So, money has come to matter. Wwe want more votes, more candidates, and less money. In our elections.
Our solution is we believe small donations matter. We want to limit big donors and take money, PAC money, out of the formula, and we might have to create limits on funds. So what we're proposing is to create a matching fund for small donations to candidates. So anybody who gives a candidate running for Council up to 50 bucks, can get a match to that contribution. And that the person taking this money would agree - I'm not going to take any PAC money.
Lucy Ann Lance:
So, they would not have access to those public funds?
John Godfrey:
If they took PAC money and if they continued to take large donations from donors. So and how would we pay for it? This is a really important point. There are no new taxes for this, there would be no new taxes, the fair election fund would get its money from the city's general fund and that would amount to three tenths of one percent of the general fund expenditures. And that would be, for instance, this year, the city is about to pass today, a general fund budget of around 139 million close to 140 million dollars.
And taking three tenths of one percent would create a kitty of 419 thousand dollars for this fund and it would be added to every single year. And so we would have a sustainable campaign finance fund in the city, that would allow - open the door for people who don't have resources to donors with big pockets or PAC money to step forward as candidates.
Lucy Ann Lance:
I'm sure the city would argue that iIt doesn't want to give up money in that vein so...
John Godfrey:
Well. Yeah, of course, there are going to have to be trade offs. But, today the council is going to take up an amendment to their budget that proposes using a hundred thousand dollars for current council members to send out mailers to residents to promote their own successes.
Lucy Ann Lance:
That's a good point. Wow, incredible. So What is wrong with PAC money? And let's talk about this in terms of the development that has been going on in the city of Ann Arbor, which a lot of that money has been coming into the current regime at city council and the mayor - to support these kinds of causes. What's wrong with that though?
John Godfrey:
Well PAC money, PAC money, one, it's kind of anonymous. It's we don't know, you know, it's it's unless you really claw through the campaign contribution records, you can't really figure out who's giving money to a political action committee. And the second thing is, a PAC can make a contribution 10 times the limit of an individual, So a PAC speaks with a bigger voice and it has, it's a louder voice, it puts more money into the pockets of candidates and it's harder to trace. And you know, I've heard you know people say well we shouldn't be funding losing candidates and all of that. Well I think I should remind you people that Barack Obama lost his first primary race, he was a runner-up.
And, Bill Clinton lost his first, two primary races and Jimmy Carter lost his nomination for governor when he first ran. So losers, count. Competition counts. Bringing up ideas for debate and discussion counts. It's how we operate as a democracy. It's important that we have more voices at the table, we have more opportunities for people to consider contributing to our civic life by running for office.
Lucy Ann Lance:
That's why you're seeing a lot around town democracy for everyone.
John Godfrey:
Yes, that is exactly what we believe.
Lucy Ann Lance:
And now, you know, everyone, it's so hard to get information today and I think it's really important for residents to understand these issues. And if this is something that you believe in and you would like to sign these two petitions, number one, the Democracy for Everyone, the nonpartisan elections. And number two Voters Not Money, the campaign finance reform. John Godfrey, how can people get access to these petitions?
John Godfrey:
Well, this Tuesday, weather permitting, we're going to be at the Mallards Creek Library and Westgate Library collecting petitions. Wednesdays and Saturdays we're Farmers market Kerrytown, and certainly our volunteers are going to be present at the Bicentennial Birthday Bash this weekend, on Saturday at Liberty Plaza and at the Library Lot. So come look for us and have volunteers in the neighborhoods and on street corners. So please come forward and help us. You can volunteer to help this or you can make contributions to support the effort at the websites for both valid initiatives.
Lucy Ann Lance:
Can you sign petitions online or, no?
John Godfrey:
No, you have to sign them in the presence of the person, the canvasser, who has to out witness your signature and your address, and you have to be a voter in the city of Ann Arbor.
Lucy Ann Lance:
In order to sign these petitions if this is what you believe in and I'm going to give those websites again in just a moment. But let me go over the locations this week. It's Tuesday, Mallets Creek Library and Westgate Library from 4 to 6 PM. Wednesday and Saturday, you're at the farmers market at Kerrytown, next Saturday's Ann Arbor Bicentennial Birthday Bash. I'm going to be there as the MC looking forward to that at Liberty Plaza, at Division and Liberty streets, and then the Townie Birthday Party and Really Free Market on the Library Lot, that'll be going on simultaneously as well. And for more information, you can go online to two websites. First of all for the nonpartisan elections, go to a2nonpartisan.com, and regarding campaign finance reform in the city of Ann Arbor it’s a2future.com.
Lucy Ann Lance:
John, really interesting. You've lived here, 30 years or so, you and your family. You were at the University of Michigan as a dean - first time you've really gotten involved in politics with these issues. Have you thought about running for city council yourself? Or, are you one of those people who looks at that and says, well, first of all, it's a lot of work, but secondly, I couldn't go up against the machine that's there now unless there's reform?
John Godfrey:
I think there are other people who would be better candidates than myself. I don't, I've never aspired to hold public office at all when I was a kid growing up in Maine. I would go to town meetings when I was little sit on the hard bleachers in our gym and watch residents of our small town argue about the budget for about six hours, before everybody finally went home. And that was, that was as close to active politics as I've been. And I think that's as far as I want to get. I'm a stronger proponent of democracy helping to make things better here in the city of Ann Arbor?
Lucy Ann Lance:
Right. Think it's just really important that all residents have a say, all residents have a voice that they feel that they're part of this process. Whatever way they want to get involved.
John Godfrey:
Exactly.
Lucy Ann Lance:
Great talking with you - thank you John Godfrey.
Again from the Coalition for Ann Arbor's Future. Go online to a2nonpartisan.com and a2future.com.
You're listening to the Lucy Ann Lance show on Ann Arbor's talk station 1290 WLBY.
